Monday, December 3, 2018

Loafer and Davis and Grooming

It has been a great first week in The Beavers. I know a number of you have really had a good time. Some of you have been dis-satisfied with how difficult Loafer and Davis are and that they have moguls. The snowcats have now traveled both trails top to bottom. As we get more and more snow, the cats will be able to travel Loafer and Davis more and more and there will be less and less moguls.

Loafer and Davis are much like our blue trails West Wall, Norway, Lenawee Parks and Dragon. When we open those trails initially, the snow is not groomed and moguls form. Right now there is a particularly tricky mogul stretch on Norway. With more snow, we start grooming those areas and eventually they become regularly groomed. Often mogul lines exist adjacent to the groomed areas. It is OK to have moguls on blue trails. Dragon is rarely groomed and has bumps all season long. While both longer, Loafer and Davis are not any more difficult than the other trails mentioned above.

No doubt, because of their length, Loafer and Davis offer challenges. If you don't like them now, wait for more snow, check our grooming report and give them a try one morning after they have been groomed.


Davis after grooming

23 comments:

. said...

If you don't like it? Um....really? Take your bitching somewhere else, and stay out of the Rat Hole.

Anonymous said...

I skied Loafer last spring and found it very difficult due to conditions. Obviously it hadn't ever been groomed but the big problem was the time of day. When I went down skiers left was getting slushy from sun but skiers right was frozen solid since it was still shaded. I wouldn't expect an intermediate to be able to handle that. Wore me out. On that day at least it was tougher than other blues at arapahoe basin. Not saying it should be black but I understand why some skiers might be having trouble with it. It can ski harder than it looks.

SkiOnThursday said...

Hi All,

Skied Loafer and Davis yesterday. As a Pali head, I have no problem with the challenge. But, I have a concern for my friends and other guests. Even the groomed parts, a bit icy, with the little snow of the moment are challenge for intermediates. There are plenty of rocks to dodge. I'm thankful I just did a ski tune and have some decent edges. Run Length is something to consider as less skilled will be exhausted in current conditions. Those very tired muscle can become dangerous with intermediate skills. Net, net: Use the symbols of blue square and a black diamond to signal a strong intermediate run. BTW: love what you have done, looking forward to the "West Territories" Regards, Bob




Cole said...

Actually both of the blue runs were marked as black last year, for the reason you mentioned and also because you had to ski grand portage and hike back

Anonymous said...

BOO! Quit pandering to the soft and weak complainers. They shouldn't even be skiing the Beavers. Don't groom it!

Anonymous said...

Yes, don't pander to intermediates. They can go ski Keystone or Vail. Keep the Legend alive!!

Anonymous said...

I say don't pander to 'experts' who are likely a small percentage of skiers yet they seem to whine the most.

joshmou said...

It was definitely difficult for a blue run. Felt more like a black run off of Pali. Not complaining, it's more of a preference of what someone wants to take. I think there are plenty of signs at the beginning of the trail warning of variable conditions. If half of it is groomed at least you have a way to get off of the moguls if you want to.

Anonymous said...

All of abasin is too hard. Please convert most runs to green.

Anonymous said...

Why do people want the terrain to come down to their ability level, when they should really be working hard to become good enough to enjoy it? my advice first off would be to heed the warning at the top which stated that moguls are to be expected. Then I'd say that you should either stay front side, have some fun and practice OR wait until later in the year when it's groomed OR just go to a beginner specific mountain. The desire to ski terrain that was inaccessible to me before due to insufficient skills/experience, is also my drive to improve. I was there last Saturday and the trees were so fun! These long tree runs are a great new asset and thank you A Basin for opening it up!

Anonymous said...

The truth is what Al said, check the grooming report before skiing. All the people bitching at the people that can't take bumps need to get a life. It is the skiers responsibility to know the terrain though and to choose based on their ability. I fall in the group that can handle most of the terrain but understand when runs like Loafer and West Wall go ungroomed they can get dicy for people looking for blue cruisers. Sometimes you're in the mood for steep groomed terrain and sometimes you want a field of VW bugs.

Anonymous said...

There was a sign (Sunday anyway) posted right at the top of Loafer that said 'warning - not groomed'. An ungroomed ABasin blue? No problem, I skied off to runs I could handle. I'd ask 'who would actually complain instead of just moving on' but I live in a country where one person can complain a 70 year old classic holiday tune right off the radio, so...

Keith Limbird said...

I think it's important to remember that ABasin is not your average, everyday resort.

Most runs at A Basin are more difficult than other resorts' greens or blues. Or blacks. But that is OK, because the system of rating difficulty of runs is only valid within a resort. It doesn't have anything to do with the runs at other resorts.

So, if you ski A Basin, realize that the mountain is harder than you are. Maybe you don't belong here, maybe you do. Choose carefully.

Keith Limbird said...

I think it's important to remember that A Basin is not your average, everyday resort.

Most runs at A Basin are more difficult than other resorts' greens or blues. Or blacks. But that is OK, because the system of rating difficulty of runs is only valid within a resort. It doesn't have anything to do with the runs at other resorts.

So, if you ski A Basin, realize that the mountain is harder than you are. Maybe you don't belong here, maybe you do. Choose carefully.

. said...

https://youtu.be/7Hf-jqDWkYc....the link to Davis. See more at the Legending Facebook page. NOTHING should be groomed in the Rat Hole. Put your big boy panties on and go ski it, or stay home.

Unknown said...

Personally, I would like to leave Loafer and Davis ungroomed for less beginner traffic. I think that especially because of the Beavers lift being new this year, it will attract a lot of people who should not be on the rest of terrain, cause large lines at the lift, and a very skied out blue in what I think should have a lift-serviced backcountry feel. I could compromise for one of the two blues being groomed, but I'd really prefer not to see both become groomers if possible. -Peter

Kevin Puetz said...

> It is OK to have moguls on blue trails.

Indeed. I'll even sometimes wish it was a little more common. It's really daunting to try and work on learning moguls when skiing them means committing to long blacks that, between bumps and steepness, are going to be the very edge of my skill to manage at all, much less well.

One of my favorite days was at Squaw on a day after a storm nuked the place and then winds shut down a big chunk of the high lifts, funneling enough traffic down Shirley lake to build the deep new snow on those blues into big soft bumps. And by afternoon I was finally starting to feel good about skiing them, the first time that had *ever* happened. Then they were all squashed flat :-(

It was certainly more fun to have manageable blue bumps than the (useful, but rather disheartening) day I spent taking a lesson at ABasin, asking to work on bumps, which mostly consisted of hosting yard sales on International.

I really like the rare half&half trails where a path is groomed but some of the width is left to develop bumps, so I can ski into moguls for a while with a way to cut out when I'm tiring. I haven't been out to the Basin yet this year to see the Beavers (I will be in a week, though!) so I don't know if Loafer or Davis are wide enough for this.

Otherwise I mostly get to ski bumps in the Midwest, where there isn't more than 400' vertical of anything and I can be more adventurous about trying things that might go badly :-)

Raoul said...

I am a fan of the idea to bring back 'blue black' (a black diamond overlaid on a blue circle). I believe this or a similar nomenclature is somewhat common in Europe to mark runs above intermediate but not of a high difficulty.
I gather that the US industry has coalesced on a unified standard, but there's still room for a few places like ABasin to show a little independence, and help skiers and riders progress by indicating next-level but still manageable challenges.

Unknown said...

Thanks for the update Al.

I'm curious - why and how do moguls naturally form in ungroomed powder? I guess I always thought moguls had to be manually formed by humans or equipment?

SkiOnThursday said...

I agree with Raoul and his rational. Ignoring those who want more corduroy, or moguls as those needs/egos are satisfied by just skiing where those conditions are known. And that's the point! Proper signage! My resort experience can't be ruined more than unskilled skiers on terrain they should not be on. I cry when seeing great snow being scraped down the hill by panic-get-me-out-of-here side slipping. More than once I've been clipped in Zuma by boarders going to straight and fast. When confronted they apologize(nicely) saying they just got going and couldn't turn. Scary! I loved opening day on Loafer in that is was a packed day and everyone was overly polite and competent. It's not just A-bay signage relative to it's own runs, but a signage standard that lets everyone, new and A-bay heads know what is around the corner, over the next drop. I'd love to see the Blue/black sign used more. And, think about the satisfaction when a intermediate skier can finally say "I owned that Blue/Black run". Worth a couple of beers in the 6th Alley.

Andrew Drennan said...

can you groom the east wall? it is too difficult for me but i want to be able to take selfies and hashtag about my experience on a double black extreme /s

Carlson and Raul said...

It's early season people.

Anonymous said...

i love reading these comments